Linda's Blog

Beste allemaal
Gelieve me tot en met 27 september op geen-mail te zetten (zit normaal
enkel op zweepslag) Zit de komende week op cursus en moet mijn gewone
mail vlot via gsm kunnen ophalen. Het grote aantal en de grootte van de
berichten zouden dit te duur maken, vandaar dus mijn tijdelijke vraag.
Voor de vele schrijvers... ik ben een van de stille genieters ....
doe aub gewoon door !
Voor de lijstbeheerders... thanks voor alle werk, inzet, tijd,
grijze haren ....
groetjes
Lut - een van de Belgskes

Hallo Jantsje
Onze tandarts houd daar rekening mee, maar hij heeft er bij gezegt dat
ik het wel iedere keer even moet zeggen, want hij kan ook niet alles
onthouden.
Dat geld ook voor de mondhygieniste, dus vermeld ik het even als ik binnen
kom, hij en zij houden er ook altijd rekening mee hoe ze de stoel voor me
neer zetten.
Dus heerlijk als ze je begrijpen.
Groetjes Jolanda Gruyters

Hallo iedereen,
even een praktisch, nogal dringend vraagje, i.v.m. kiespijn van mijn
vriendin (die zelf -nog- geen computer heeft, vandaar dat ik het doe).
Hoe doen jullie wl-patiënten dat met naar de tandarts gaan?
Zijn er tandartsen die zijn gespecialiseerd in wl?
Is er mogelijkheid om een behandeling in etappes op te delen zodat je
niet uren op die stoel hoeft te zitten?
Vast bedankt!
Jantsje

Beste Anne,
Ik heb 3 jaar geleden zo een onderzeoek ondergaan.
Maar dit is heel anders.
De lijstbeheerders hebben mijn titel anders beoordeeld t.t.z.moest
zijn onderzoek is nakend.
Dit deskundig onderzoek gaat niet alleen over de neuro-psychologie,maar
over gans mijn lichaam om een volledige invaliditeit te verkrijgen.
Die dokter moet oordelen of ik nog in staat ben om te werken.
Bij ons in België zijn ze achterop met zulke dingen.Als je uit de
ziektewet word ontslagen moet je in België gaan stempelen en word je
niet meer getest voor een andere baan!!
Toch bedankt
Groetjes
Patrick

hoi hoi,
Wat rot voor haar zeg.
Ja de verzekeringsmaatschappijen hebben te veel macht. Ze willen me
afkopen, ik heb gezegd dat ik er over wil denken en eventueel een zaak
wil beginnen.
Maar kreeg gelijk opmerkingen dat vaak op medische keuringen niks te
zien is enz enz.
Het is mijn risico. waar kies je voor, voor een klein bedrag of voor
gerechtigheid. Ik weet het nog niet. Alles wordt ook zolang
uitgesteld, hij zou het een en ander op papier zetten, het gesprek
is al weer 3 weken geleden.
Ontmoedigingsbeleid denk ik. Maar als ze met een beter bod komen dan
doe ik het misschien wel. Ik moet het allemaal nog even zien.
Wil iedereen veel sterkte wensen met of tegen de
verzekeringsmaatschappij, want ja, hun betaal je wel op tijd, maar
wij moeten jaren wachten. waarvoor zijn we verzekerd vraag ik me af.
Maar ik denk dat ze ook wel bang zijn dat ik een zaak ga beginnnen,
Wacht hun spullen even af, anders ga ik er eens echt werk van maken.
Sterkte iedereen.
liefs
brenda

Hoi allemaal :-)
Onderstaand verhaal is een (waar gebeurt) is een ervaring die naar mijn
bescheiden mening, menig Whiplash-patient heeft meegemaakt ! En wie is
die Dr. P....nu....in het zuiden van het land ??
Natuurlijk horen we ook graag positieven ervaringen !
MvG. Peter
pbosman@...
ICQ: 85676184
Ik werd aangereden:
Ik ben Robijn Schadelast-Beperking, gezinsverzorgster. 26 jaar. Binnenkort
krijgen wij ons eerste kindje. Over deze fijne tijd ligt een schaduw.
In 1997 reed een auto van links in mijn portier. Ik was er erg aan toe.
Later gebeurden er de vreemdste dingen. Mijn huisarts, keurend arts,
Arbo-arts en drie therapeuten beweren allemaal dat er niets is.
Ik kan door de schade en de pijn niet meer werken en heb thuis hulp nodig.
Mijn rechtsbijstandverzekering Interpolis roept twijfels op. Mijn
inzittendenverzekering - ook Interpolis - betaalt niet.
De verzekeraar van de tegenpartij - jawel, u leest het goed: eveneens
Interpolis - maakt geen haast.
Ik heb schrik als ik straks weer door Cadans wordt opgeroepen.
De eerste advocaat liet de zaak lopen. Nu naar de tweede advocaat kost
ons veel inspanning. Als ik niet procedeer krijg ik misschien niets,
terwijl ik mijn werkvermogen verloor, dreigt dit ook voor mijn werk en
mijn inkomen. En dat terwijl ik zelf keurig verzekerd was, en netjes
betaalde. Als ik wél naar de Rechter ga ben ik zo weer een aantal jaren
bezig.
Mijn dossier is inmiddels al een grote ordner vol ...
Een tijdje geleden kreeg ik van Interpolis een oproep om voor een keuring
te verschijnen. Bij Dr. P., neuroloog in de grote stad in het zuiden des
lands.
Bij de oproep werden allerlei 'vergissingen' gemaakt. Toppunt was, dat de
assistente mij beschuldigde niet mee te werken. Gelukkig heb ik daar bewijs
van.
Inmiddels heb ik tot mijn schrik uit Dossier 1850 en de Aanvulling en ook
uit tv-uitzendingen en krantenberichten gezien, dat Dr. P. om diverse
redenen omstreden is. Maar ik kon de keuring toen niet meer afzeggen.
Misschien zou Interpolis dat kunnen aangrijpen om mij een uitkering te
weigeren. Ik houd mijn hart vast.
Ik begrijp niet waarom de Medische Instanties en Interpolis, die over
deze dokter allang op de hoogte moeten zijn, nog steeds niet hebben
ingegrepen. De gegevens zijn immers al jaren bekend.
Ik vind het niet fris van Interpolis om mij zo laat en ook nog precies
naar deze Dr. P. te sturen.
(2 oktober 2000)
Opmerking: Om privacy-redenen is de naam gefingeerd.

Hoi allemaal,
We hebben kort geleden gesproken over de macht maar ook over de onmacht
van verzekeraars.
Hieronder een verhaal hoe het advies zou moeten luiden te handelen in
verzekeringszaken, teneinde, een eventuele rechtsgang te belazeren.
Ja er zijn ook goede. Ik weet het maar ben ze nog niet tegen gekomen !
Met dank aan Hans Walker:
MvG. Peter Bosman
De actuele strategie van arbeidsongeschiktheid- en letselschade
verzekeraars afgeleid uit openbare bronnen
Uit openbare bronnen is de actuele strategie van arbeidsongeschiktheid- en
letselschade verzekeraars afgeleid, verdeeld over onderstaande onderwerpen:
ONDERWERPEN:
aandoening, aansprakelijkheid, adviezen, advocaat, advocatuur, actualiteit,
arbeidsdeskundige, arbeidsongeschikt, arbeidsgehandicapt, arbeids-
ongeschiktheid, Arbo-dienst, arts, bedrijf, beroep, bureaucratie, burnout,
claim, claimbehandeling, dekking, deskundige, detective, dokter, dossier,
economie, expert, expertise, fouten, GAK, gedragscode, gedupeerde,
Inspectie, Interpolis, invalide, invaliditeit, journalistiek, jurist,
Justitie, keuringsarts, keuring, klacht, letsel, letselschade, media,
medicus, medisch, mensenrechten, nieuws, Ombudsman, ondernemer, onderzoek,
ongeval, ontslag, overspannen, patiënt, pers, poldermodel, praktijk, premie,
procedure, psychiater, ptss, publiciteit, Rabobankrapport, rechercheur,
rechtbank, recht, Rechter, rechtsbijstand-verzekering, rechtsgang,
rechtshulp, rechtspraak, rechtsstaat, reïntegratie, schade, schaderegeling,
schadeverzekering, schikking, slachtoffer, stresssyndroom, tips, trauma,
traumatisering, Tuchtcollege, tussenpersoon, uitkering,
Uitvoeringsinstelling, verkeer, verstrengeling, verzekeraar, verzekerd,
verzekerde, verzekering, vrijheid, meningsuiting, wet, WAO-gat, WAO, WAZ,
whiplash, zelfdoding, zelfstandige, ziekte, zwijggeld.
Literatuurstudie:
Speur wereldwijd naar studieresultaten die concluderen dat onbewezen
gezondheidsklachten geen arbeidsbeperkingen zijn en gebruik deze in de
lobby naar de politiek en de media, en bij de claimbehandeling (zie
wetenschap, politiek en journalistiek) Sponsoring, Sponsor het onderwijs,
de wetenschap (in het bijzonder de faculteiten geneeskunde en
verzekeringsrecht) en de media (zie wetenschap, leerstoelen en
journalistiek).
Wetenschap:
Zorg voor inhoudelijke inbreng bij onderzoekprogramma's, studies en
-rapportages; Belemmer onderzoek naar aandoeningen die causaal verband
zouden aantonen met schadelijke stoffen, rampen, of met schadelijke leef-
en werkomgevingen (zie leerstoelen)
Leerstoelen:
Laat topfunctionarissen uit uw bedrijf zich voor leerstoelen inviteren
en laat hen in die positie inhoudelijke inbreng leveren
Politiek:
Schakel selectief lobbyisten in, liefst journalisten zelf; Help hen met
productieklare berichten; Zie erop toe dat berichtgeving over onprettige
issues wordt afgeremd; Zorg voor het vertragen van ongewenste
ontwikkelingen, onder meer door het bevorderen van discussies over
details, en het incidenteel aanleveren van canards (zie journalistiek)
Journalistiek:
Onderhoud prettige contacten met (hoofd)redacties en journalisten; Geef
daarbij voldoende ruimte aan hen die binnen grenzen patiënten of
belangengroepen kunnen provoceren; Bedien u van Medical Opinion Leaders
uit de medische en therapeutische sfeer zoals Psychiater Prof. Dr. G.F.
Koerselman en voormalig Lisv-Arts Dr. S. Knepper; Maak waar nodig van
freelancers gebruik om wat sterker op de man/vrouw te spelen of om een
journalistieke lofzang te brengen op (omstreden) topmensen uit het
maatschappelijk verkeer; Zorg voor een onophoudelijke stroom van liefst
oncontroleerbare berichten over excessieve schadeniveaus en fraudes; Leg
veel nadruk op mogelijke sancties ingeval van gebrek aan medewerking bij
Reïntegratie
Reclame-uitingen:
Zorg ervoor dat het onwaarheidsgehalte van uw reclame- en promotie-
uitingen niet afwijkt van dat van uw concurrenten; Vertrouw op de
reclamecodecommissie als het nodig is
Verzekerden:
Onderhoud een prettige relatie met verzekerden, maar zorg voor subtiele
foutjes en provocaties, zodra een schade een bepaald bedrag te boven gaat;
Geef breed aandacht in de media aan fraudes door verzekerden, en laat
daarvoor geen bron onbenut
Productbeleid:
Zorg voortdurend voor kleine wijzigingen in bestaande producten, lopende
polissen en een voldoende aanwas van nieuwe producten; Noem de polissen
Reïntegratieverzekeringen: De kortstondige risico's worden gedekt: Zo
veel mogelijk: Tijdens de reïntegratiepogingen wordt de uitkering
afgebouwd
Acceptatie:
Gebruik zo mogelijk slogans als 'géén medische keuring, géén moeilijke
vragenformulieren' (door de gevolgde strategie en de wonderbaarlijke
resultaten van reïntegratie behoeft immers nooit lang te worden
uitgekeerd)
Offertebehandeling en Poliswijzigingen:
Zie toe op de juiste uitsluitingen en (verhoogde) premies, afhankelijk
van de bij acceptatie vastgestelde extra risico's; Zorg voor voldoende
complicerende onduidelijkheden in de teksten van acceptatievragenlijsten
en schadeformulieren, in de samenhang tussen de stukken, de 'kleine
lettertjes' ; Zorg bijvoorbeeld voor onduidelijkheid in data en nummers
van bijlagen van stukken, alsmede door bij voorkeur niet met naam en
functie ondertekenende personen; Zorg voortdurend voor wijziging in
behandelend functionarissen, en in reclame-, verkoop- en polistermen en
-begrippen
Polisbeheer:
(Zie productbeleid); Zorg dat polissen te allen tijde (kunnen) worden
opgezegd, of stevig in prijs verhoogd, zodra het betreffende risico
toeneemt, zoals bij hogere leeftijd, waardoor die categorie zelf kan
opzeggen; Wees zo attent uw cliënten daarover te mailen, zodra het voor
u geschikte moment is aangebroken
Prijsbeleid:
Differentieer zo veel mogelijk in de te factureren premies, onder meer
afhankelijk van de bij de acceptatie en daarna vastgestelde extra risico's
en uitsluitingen
Tussenpersonen:
Onderhoud een prettige relatie met tussenpersonen, zolang deze uw belang
naar waarde schatten; Geef ruimschoots aandacht in de media aan fraudes
bij tussenpersonen en laat daarvoor geen bron onbenut
Claimbehandeling:
Wees coulant bij bij kleine schades in het acute stadium; Gaat het langer
duren? Zorg voor gedoseerde 'vergissingen', provocatie en zonodig
intimidatie van patiënten; Zodat zij uiteindelijk met een onontwarbaar
dossier uitgeput met lege handen achterblijven of met een fooi genoegen
nemen; Speur daartoe in het aanmelding- en schadeformulier naar fraude,
schakel uw favoriete controle- en keuringsartsen in, zolang ze bij de
rechtbank niet in ongenade zijn; Schakel desgewenst detectives in; Zorg
voor andragogisch getrainde arbeidsdeskundigen; Maak ze de spil in de
Reïntegratie met argusogen kijkend of er geen onwil bij de patiënt is te
zien; Verlaag de uitkering zo mogelijk al voordat de reïntegratie begint;
Zorg dat verzekerden zo mogelijk aan het werk gestuurd worden voordat de
klachten zijn verholpen; Beëindig de polis terstond zodra het
dienstverband of de onderneming van verzekerde eindigt, juist ook ingeval
u diens arbeidsongeschiktheid ontkent; Bedien u van schaderegelaars,
artsen, arbeidsdeskundigen en advocaten, waarvan de (financiële) records
aangeven, dat bij hen méér claimgerechtigden voortijdig van hun
(volledige) claimrechten afzagen (zie Offertebehandeling, Productbeleid
en Poliswijzigingen)
Politie, Brandweer:
Ingeval van ongevallen en rampen: Zorg ervoor dat uw inspecteur zo vroeg
mogelijk ter plekke is, zodat al te schadelijke sporen kunnen worden
verdoezeld; Juich het toe of bevorder dat Politie, Brandweer of (openbare)
bestuurders verklaringen afgeven, die aangeven dat het letsel of de schade
meevalt, dan wel dat er geen (bewezen) schadelijke stoffen in aanraking
met aanwezigen en omstanders (kunnen) zijn gekomen
Keuringsartsen:
Speur al op universiteiten en via bevriende artsen naar (aspirant-)artsen
in opleiding met de juiste feeling en het juiste profiel; Kijk naar wie
bij patiënten met de juiste feeling weet te speuren en te rapporteren over
verklarend verleden (ongelukkige jeugd, vroegere ziektes, familiaire aanleg
en relatieproblemen thuis of op het werk), waarna er niet (meer) hoeft te
worden uitgekeerd; Geef stille wenken aan artsen, die in de termen en
conclusies van hun rapportages verzekeringsfinancieel te veel achterblijven
bij uw favorieten; Geef zeker ruimte aan hen die binnen grenzen bij
patiënten kunnen provoceren en hen zonodig met het juiste gevoel intimideren
Klachtorganen:
Richt zelf (nieuwe klachtorganen op en breng periodiek wijzigingen aan;
Doe dit met de nodige publiciteit (gebruik daarbij gespierde terminologie
als: wij willen misstanden uitroeien, het kaf van het koren scheiden);
Onderhoud prettige quasi-onafhankelijke relaties met deze organen;
Infiltreer in sleutelposities en de programmering met eigen mensen of
tussenpersonen; Reik voldoende materiaal aan waarmee de behandelaars van
klachten binnen grenzen klagers kunnen provoceren; Zorg dat de
jaarrapporten zo laat mogelijk verschijnen en dat die in vorm en accenten
sterk variëren, zodat het bijna niemand opvalt dat er eigenlijk geen enkele
verbetering wordt bereikt
Advocatuur:
Onderhoud prettige relaties; Geef de voorkeur aan hen die tweezijdig (dus
ook voor verzekeraars) pleiten, en die procedures tegen u weten te
vertragen en met de nodige variëteit foutjes tegenover patiënten maken
Justitie:
Bevorder dubieuze convenanten met Justitie, waarbij uw mensen, of
privé-bureaus de overbelaste Justitie werk uit handen nemen; Schroom niet
om dat voluit naar de media te geleiden waarbij als reden, de grote schaal
waarop wordt gefraudeerd, breeduit wordt vermeld; Zorg voor voldoende
spreiding in geleverde plaatsvervangende Rechters uit eigen kring; Onderhoud
via hen een prettig en dienstbaar communicatief klimaat
Belangenorganen, Patiëntenverenigingen en Hulporganen:
Onderhoud prettige, niet al te opvallende relaties; Sponsor deze
rechtstreeks of indirect; Infiltreer in sleutelposities en de programmering
via eigen mensen, bevriende artsen, advocaten, schaderegelaars, of via
andere tussenpersonen, al dan niet in een 'beschermheerfunctie'; Laat uw
afgevaardigden trainingen en voordrachten verzorgen en naar vertrouwde
disciplines verwijzen; Zorg voor voldoende ondersteunend materiaal, waarmee
invloed kan worden uitgeoefend

Hallo Annet
bedankt voor het lezen van mijn mailtje.
allereerst de antwoorden op jouw vragen,sorry geen hoofdletters dat is
voor mij te vermoeiend en problematisch.
de eerste wp in 67 is uiteraard niet naar voren gekomen van een wp omdat
dat gewoon nog niet zo bekend stond,ik had toen een beklemming en zat
totaal vast in die zin dat ik toen totaal niet kon lopen, met therapien
jaren lang is daar naar 2jaar een verbetering ingekomen en kon ik
langzaam aan weer wat dingen ondernemen, uiteraard er nu op terug kijkend
nooit meer zoals daarvoor maar ja na 2 jaar helemaal niets naar iets was
al een wereld prestatie dus.
ik lekker verder, trouwde en kreeg kinderen, niet allemaal zo makkelijk
hoor zoals ik het nu opschrijf, maar toch niet zoals ik nu ben, ik was
jonger en flexibeler en kon nog nadenken zonder te vergeten, ik heb toen
ook geen schadevergoeding gehad want toendertijd bestond dat al helemaal
niet natuurlijk.
ik was als kind al altijd ziek en kon nooit langer dan een halve dag naar
school, omdat ik als hartpatient ben geboren, heb ik trouwens niet zo
heel veel last van hoor ik ben niet de vlugste meer met mijn wielen waar
ik niet zelf mee kan hoepelen(jij wel??) en ik had al problemen met een
soort reuma in mijn jeugd, dus mijn hele gestel was al zwakker dan een
doorsnee mens en dat is bij mijn laatste ongeluk dus onder de loep
genomen door de tegenpartij die dus alles op mijn verleden van ziek zijn
baseerde en toen ook op de proppen kwam met de mededeling dat ik in 67
dus ook een ernstige wp had opgelopen, ja en ik was maar een huisvrouw
dus wat moest ik nou van hun.
ik was niet meer zo bij de tijd na mijn ongeluk want ik zat onder de glas
spinters en van kop tot teen had ik zware kneuzingen pezen gescheurd en
het stuur tegen mijn borstkas gehad waar door ik een gescheurde borstspier
had waar ik trouwens nu nog altijd heel veel last van heb,ja ik was
eerlijk gezegd zeer gelukkig dat mijn kinderen er goed van af waren
gekomen dus ik heb er toen ook niet zoveel werk van gemaakt en de
tegenpartij heeft mij papieren laten tekenen terwijl in een zware
hersenschudding had, ja en dan kan er niets meer dan alleen verder te
gaan met de ellende die is achter gebleven en hopen dat je op een dag
wakker wordt en dat je je beter gaat voelen, helaas is mijn dag nog niet
gekomen maar ik blijf hopen.
ik droom bijna elke nacht van mijn aangepaste auto en dat ik er eindelijk
eens alleen op uit kan want dat afhankelijke wordt ik stapelgek van, ik
heb inmiddels via het cbr mijn aangepaste rijbewijs laten veranderen door
een waar ik misschien nog eens mijn droom kan laten uitkomen, ik had zoveel
bepalingen op mijn andere rijbewijs dat je alleen met het inkomen van de
koningin misschien nog eens mocht rijden, helaas moeten wij het in mijn
gezin doen met de w.a.o. van mijn echtgenoot maar ik blijf dromen hoor en
tijdens mijn dromen heb ik geen pijn en zit ik eerlijk gezegd heerlijk
uitgebreid op de bahama's en alle andere mooie stranden dus ik ben
s'nachts altijd op vakantie (wel met slaapmiddelen hoor anders kan het
niet).
nou annet hoop dat je hier wat aan had en dat ik gauw weer iets hoor
groetjes isabelle

Hallo lieve allemaal,
Hier weer eens een berichtje van mij. We zijn inmiddels alweer 1 1/2
week terug van vakantie.
We zijn 8 dagen naar Kreta geweest. Nouja..8??? Zeg maar 6.
We kwamen de eerste dag pas s'nachts om 1.00 uur aan in ons appartement,
en de laatste dag werden we s'morgens om 8.00 uur weer opgehaald.
Maar goed, het was dan wel een korte vakantie, maar wel een hele mooie
vakantie. We hebben voor 3 dagen een auto gehuurd, en zodoende hebben we
toch best wel wat van het eiland kunnen zien. Wij zijn helemaal geen
mensen die het lang vol kunnen houden aan het strand, en toen we dan ook
even een wilde afkoelen aan een strandje aan de zuidkust, waren we binnen
10 minuten weer weg daar. Tjee, wat was het daar warm zeg.
Niet te harden;o)))
De warmte heeft me wel goed gedaan, ik had bijna geen pijn, en ik had best
wel veel energie om dingen te ondernemen. Helaas kon ik s'avonds niet echt
genieten van het heerlijke griekse eten. Ik werd al misselijk van de geur
en ik stond meestal te trillen op m'n benen. Ik denk dat het de
vermoeidheid is die er s'avonds uit kwam.
Eenmaal thuis, dacht ik in eerste instantie dat het heel goed ging. Ik zat
vol energie en wilde alweer graag vanalles gaan doen. Helaas....dat duurde
niet lang. Doordat het hier meer dan 20 graden kouder is, bleef de pijn
niet uit.
Ik besloot dan ook om nog maar even op no-mail te blijven en even helemaal
uit te rusten. Met een dikke wintertrui aan voor de openhaard, was het wel
te doen.
Nu ben ik alweer redelijk gewend aan het koude weer. Ik ben iets minder
moe, en de pijn is weer te dragen. En natuurlijk kon ik jullie echt niet
meer missen, dus vandaar dat ik er weer ben, vanaf vandaag.
Groetjes en tot gauw,
Liefs, Nicole

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
RECHTSTREEKS "TOETSPRATEN" MET ELKAAR
Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2001
Time: All Day
.

Hoi Ruud,
Ik weet niet of het helpt maar ik zal aan je denken 9 oktober.
En voor je duimen.
Ik weet hoe stug en dwars die instanties kunnen zijn.
Wel prettig dat je iemand hebt die het voor je opneemt die ook ervaring
heeft met het GAK.
Succes en veel sterkte.
Groetjes Anne-Marie

Hallo Allemaal,
Nou ik kan de tanden weer scherpen zo als dat heet.
Want 9 oktober a.s is het weer zover.
Dan is er weer een hoorzitting van het gak omtrent mijn bezwaarschrift
tegen de uitspraak van hun.
Effe in het kort wat er aan de hand is voor de nieuwe mensen.
Ik loop al een een heel poos tegen het Gak te knokken
omtrent hun uitspraken.
Want men wil mij aan het werk hebben voor 20 uur in de week.
En dat kan ik niet. Dus vandaar mijn geknok tegen het logge lichaam dat
gak heet. Want ik heb al diverse procedure`s achter de rug.
En mijn eerste bezwaar licht nu bij de rechter.
Maar ik heb gelukkig nu goeie hulp voor deze zaken.
Mijn advocaat heeft een bureau in geschakelt die thuis zijn
in bezwaarprocedure`s van het gak en het uszo en cadans.
Dus het vervolg horen jullie wel.
Groetjes Ruud,
de pitbull van apeldoorn.

Hallo Marjan,
Dat mag ik hopen voor je dat het wat oplucht.
Marjan is het zo dat je deze therapeute via de revalidatiearts hebt omdat
je zegt "Ik zal hem zeggen dat ik deze therapeut niet meer wil".
Ik heb zo het gevoel dat je met je revalidatiearst wel goed overweg kunt
en dat hij je whiplash niet in twijfel trekt, waarom speel je het dan niet
zo dat je revalidatie arts deze therapeut is even op de vingers tikt.
Mocht dat niet kunnen dat zou ik dit toch even zelf doen.
Kwaad prima maar zorg dat je netjes blijft dan valt jou nooit wat te
verwijten, en ja zij zit fout niet jij, al zou ze twijfelen mag ze dat nog
niet bij jou neer leggen.
Zeer terrecht dat je boos bent, is ze nou helemaal.
Geen genoegen meenemen, No Way.
Groetjes
Annet.

Hallo Henny,
Blij dat je er weer bent.
Goed verlopen zei je toch? Je schrikt je toch helemaal wild.
Nu maar hopen dat het wat oplevert en dat er wat aan gedaan kan worden. Heel
veel sterkte en beterschap.
Doe het vooral heel rustig aan aub.
wat niet gaat, gaat niet en dan vooral ook niet doen.
Groetjes
Annet.

Hallo Jantsje,
Van harte welkom bij de lijst, ik hoop dat je hier vindt wat je zoekt en dat
je daardoor een steun kunt zijn voor degeen waar jij mee bevriend bent.
Daar moet ik eerlijk op zeggen, heel erg goed dat je die moeite wilt en
durft te nemen. Ja ook durft, heel veel whiplashpatienten zijn door wat hen
is overkomen (inclusief ikzelf) heel veel vrienden verloren, door onbegrip
maar ook door angst.
Daarover kan ik je niet inlichten want ik weet niet van het bestaan van
zoiets, wel weet ik dat er hier verschillende parners zijn van wl patienten
die net zo goed hun kant van het hele gebeuren geven.
Ik hoop dan ook dat je van die kant ook de nodige reacties krijgt.
Groetjes
Annet.

hoi
Ik wil weer even mijn verhaal kwijt, want ik ben nu echt kwaad.
Heb ik het eidelijk via de revalidatie arts voor elkaar, dat ik weer fysio
krijg lig ik gelijk met de therapeut in de clinch.
Zij zegt dus dat de whiplash allang weg is, en dat het allemaal tussen mijn
oren zit.
Ik zou volgens haar die terugslag hebben gekregen omdat ik teleurgesteld was
dat de opleidng mis ging.
Ik ben dus met de opleidng gestopt, omdat ik een terugslag kreeg.
Het eerste wat ze dus gedaan heeft toen ze zag dat ik weer voor therapie
kwam is mijn psycholoog bellen. Zij pech want moijn psychologe was vrij.
Ik voel me dus echt niet serieus genomen natuurlijk spelen er spanningen
mee, en natuurlijk ben ik teleurgesteld, maar kan dat allemaal in een keer
zo'n erge pijn en terugslag veroorzaken. Ik geloof daar niet in.
Ik moet donderdag weer naar de revalidatiearts, en ik zal hem zeggen dat ik
deze therapeut niet meer wil, want dit is al de tweede keer dat ze dit
flikt. Als ik geen andere therapeut krijg, dan zoek ik wel een andere
oplossing. Maar hiet heb ik geen zin meer in.
Ik maak me alleen maar ontzettend kwaad, en dat kost alleen maar energie.
Misschien heeft er iemand nog een tip voor mij.
Zo ik moest even mijn verhaal kwijt. Misschien dat het wat oplucht.
Groetjes
Marjan.

WPAFB develops Morgellons and Gay Bomb!

Everybody's heard of the "gay bomb"... I always thought it was an apocryphal tale of the Reagan Era. Alas, a document FOIA'd from Wright-Patterson Air-Force Base has it written in plain language:

"chemicals that effect human
behavior... one distateful but nonlethal example would be strong
aphrodisiacs, especially if the chemical also caused homosexual
behavior"

The same document also provides details on the development of disease-based bioweapons that sound a lot like Morgellons disease. What is particularly striking is stated timeframe of the contract 1995-2000. In my opinion, this coincides with the timeline of the rise of Morgellons:

* 1995 - Approximate date that NPA started recording cases of "an
increasing number of individuals reporting lice or scabies but
describing symptoms inconsistent with either of these parasites."
* 1998, Dec - Oldest archived version of the NUSPA web site.
* 1999, Feb -Postings on parasite mailing list mention parasites that look like "lint" and "hairs". (Posts byJules and Curtis W. King.)
* 1999, Oct - Posting on "Elliot's Disease", mentions involvement with the NPA.
* 2000, Feb - NPA has a "Reporting Registry" for Elliot's Disease (or: "undetermined pathogens which may mimic lice and scabies")
* 2001, Summer, Mary Leitao finds fibers on her son's skin. She finds a "Scabies Forum" on the internet where people are discussing finding fibers.
* 2001, Nov - Neuro-cutaneous Syndrome (NCS): A New Disorder, published by Omar M. Amin in Discover Magazine.
* 2002, March - Morgellons.com and Morgellons.org domain names registered.
* 2002, July - Posting by Mary Leitao on medhelp.org mentions morgellons.org
* 2003, Jun - The Morgellons Foundation, first recorded web site on archive.org.

What is also interesting is around this same time-frame, searching bulletin-boards where medical professionals "talk shop"... there is a noticeable rise in dermatologists going "what's with the sudden increase in delusional parasitosis cases??" They'd note that in previous years, they'd seen at most one or two cases PER YEAR. Now they were seeing one or two cases PER MONTH. This began around 1995-1996. For a disease that is officially supposed to be "very rare" it is odd that there are no meta-analyses of the unexpected rapid rise in DOP cases.

The FOIA'd document details the kind of bioweapons being produced by the USAF, despite the fact that such weapons are banned by the Geneva Conventions:

Chemicals that can be sprayed onto enemy positions or onto infiltration routes used by enemy forces. Three classes of chemical weapon are proposed:
Categorty #1: Chemicals that attract annoying creatures to the enemy position and make the creatures aggressive and annoying. Stinging and biting bugs, rodents, and larger animals would be candidates to be drawn to the enemy positions.
Category #2: Chemicals that make lasting but nonlethal markings on the personnel.
(a) Those that were exposed to the chemicals during travel on infiltration routes or from being sprayed while in the enemy camp could be easily identified (by smell or appearance) weeks later, making it impossible for them to blend with the local population. The chemical marking should also be annoying to the exposed individuals and to those around him/her. Spray equipment could be used as part of a perimeter defense system (if decontamination for friendly forces is available).
(b) A variation on the theme would be that we would have the counteracting treatment, and affected personnel would have to come to us for the treatment. This version would be especially suitable for use against mixtures of enemy forces and non-combatants. Civilians would come to us for treatment, and the enemy forces that did not seek treatment could be identified.
(c) A more subtle version would be some lasting chemical marker that was not obvious to humans, but would be obvious to trained dogs or special detecting equipment. These chemicals could be sprayed on infiltration routes. Marked individuals would not know they were marked, and would not know how the dogs/equipment identified them
Category #3: Chemicals That effect (sic) human behavior so that discipline and morale in enemy units is adversely effected (sic). One distasteful but completely non-lethal example would be strong aphrodisiacs, especially if the chemical also caused homosexual behavior. Another example would be a chemical that made personnel very sensitive to sunlight.

Finally, a timeline is offered in the WPAFB bioweapons contract:. Note that "field tests" of the bioweapon end Sept. 98, and the first NUSPA site appears December '98:

Project Plan: (Assume start date 1 Oct 94)
a. Step 1: select/assign DOD organizations with expertise to run/participate in the development programs. Participating organizations should provide knowledge about medicine, chemical manufacturing, and weapons applications/use. Completion Feb 95.
b. Step 2: select types/categories of chemicals to be developed (Completion 1 May 95) Then, have various companies develop chemicals and conduct laboratory tests. Complete 1 Dec 97.
d.(sic) Step 3: Conduct field tests in different climates/conditions with chemicals known to have acceptable toxicity to determine effectiveness and best application techniques/procedures. Completion 1 Sep 98.
e. Step 4: Produce effective and safe chemicals in large quantities and conduct operational evaluations, so perhaps include selected use during actual hostilities.
Complete 1 Sep 00

Now the question is ... what constitutes "hostilities?" Does the "war on drugs" count as a "hostility"? Because apparently the fusarium-based defoliant they've been spraying on drug crops appears to be affecting humans: http://www.narconews.com/~myco/Mycoherbicide.info/

And true to the FOIA'd document, humans exposed to these bioweapons "anywhere along the infiltration route" would create lasting markings (smell or appearance) on exposed personnel. The obvious markings should also be annoying to exposed and adjacent personnel, and difficult or impossible to remove."

What do those "lasting markings" that are annoying and impossible to remove look like? They look like Amy Winehouse who appears to have Morgellons
wineh.jpg arm.jpg

But of course the tabloids are blaming her appearance on drug-abuse . That is a completely bogus argument... We've seen tons of major drug abusers in the 60's and 70's -- rock stars and Hollywood types -- and none of them looked anything like dermatologists are claiming as "drug induced formication" "drug induced delusional parasitosis" "coke mites" etc. The reality is that the DEA is putting up pictures of people with Morgellons as prototypical "this is how drug users look" but the reality is that the "look" has nothing to do with drug abuse, and everything to do with bioweapons designed to kill drug crops and "mark" drug users. So now drug users look like this: http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_8.html whereas in the past they looked like this: http://ratorecordsblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/csny-dj-vu-more.html ... Same drugs... what changed?
What changed is the War on Drugs and these "marking" bioweapons as outlined in the WPAFB documents FOIA'd above. The Mother Jones article "Drug Control or Biowarfare?" may well be the smoking gun of Morgellons where crop-control fusarium is shown to be infecting humans, farm animals, and effecting crops other than the target. The fusarium link with Morgellons is strong. The odd "silentsuperbug" site claims Morgellons is a genetcally modified fusarium crossed with a cyanobacteria...

Unfortunately, with the sigificant rise in Morgellons cases, and the fact that babies and young children that are clearly not drug abusers are getting this disease. It is clear that the infection has "escaped containment" and is no longer just afflicting drug users taking bioweapon-tainted drugs and spread to "mark" their immediate family and friends for further discrimination.
The issue is that people suffering from this emerging epidemic are not taken seriously -- they are immediatly discriminated-against by the medical profession, the workplace and peers as "looking like a drug user." But they're a law-abiding citizen infected by the US's illegal (against Geneva Conventions) and immoral use of Bioweapons against it's own citizens. The public health costs of these bioweapons spreading suffering and death worldwide indicates that the war on drugs is truly an evil construct, causing far more suffering and societal damage than drug abuse could ever cause, both in terms of disease, lost productivity, broken families, and the USA's ranking as the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world.

I am a morgellons sufferer and I have B Negative blood. Perhaps someone should do a poll on here to see what blood types everyone is.....Just saw a comment on one of the posts regarding RH Negative blood.
Niels Mayer <NielsMayer@...

ba054006.ba.ars.usda.gov - - [19/Mar/2008:12:29:23 -0700] "GET /kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf HTTP/1.1" 200 83418 "http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=120889" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)"
So what is the USDA doing looking at a page with the following information on it (also this link is real iteresting w/r/t the Kaiser study
http://statmath.wu-wien.ac.at/data/statlab/ )

NANO--MORGELLONS

Posted By: CrystalRiver
Date: Wednesday, 19 March 2008, 3:24 p.m.

http://nielsmayer.com/kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf

Neils information is quite telling of the plans they have for those with this condition after the CDC + Kaiser + Army Pathology study.

Here is a link I haven't posted in a while that is so telling!

I did a strange search on a hunch---Rh negative blood + 13 families---check this out!

http://statmath.wu-wien.ac.at/data/statlab/

What are/were they looking for and to what end?

http://www.justin.tv/humanlabrat?gclid=CLDkuZ2Zn5ICFRkGagod4xXE-Q
the above "virial marketing" is almost as scary as the morgie pictures of Amy Winehouse http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=537189&in_page_id=1773 ... which is "viral marketing"
for "Morgellons==drugs" ... I'm beginning to think closer to TamTam ( http://silentsuperbug-reference.blogspot.com/ ) -- that it's something they're putting on the drugs (e.g. the fungus used to eradicate crops http://www.narconews.com/~myco/Mycoherbicide.info/ ) or accidentally contaminating the drugs after the US DEA spraying operations... but as with all biological warfare, the target never remains "contained." So the drug users get this disease first... it is then associated with drug use and not considered a real disease... but rather something that needs the same kind of psychotropics that a drug user needs... who might well be hallucinating all sorts of crazy stuff based on real active morgellons lesions... and when this spreads into the general population it is not taken seriously. Patients with the disease are discriminated against as drug users,
on appearance, despite being law-abiding citizens with an untreated infection. ...

ba054006.ba.ars.usda.gov - - [19/Mar/2008:12:29:23 -0700] "GET /kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf HTTP/1.1" 200 83418 "http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=120889" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)"
So what is the USDA doing looking at a page with the following information on it (also this link is real iteresting w/r/t the Kaiser study
http://statmath.wu-wien.ac.at/data/statlab/ )

NANO--MORGELLONS
Posted By: CrystalRiver
Date: Wednesday, 19 March 2008, 3:24 p.m.

http://nielsmayer.com/kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf

Neils information is quite telling of the plans they have for those with this condition after the CDC + Kaiser + Army Pathology study.

Here is a link I haven't posted in a while that is so telling!

I did a strange search on a hunch---Rh negative blood + 13 families---check this out!

http://statmath.wu-wien.ac.at/data/statlab/

What are/were they looking for and to what end?

There was supposed to be arial spraying in the San Francisco Bay Area
to erradicate the Apple Moth which is a threat to agriculture. I don't
know the whole circumstances but pesticide spraying was to take place
and is still being debated.
Last evening on the local news there is an alternate plan to use tiny
microscopic wasps to erradicate the moths either instead of or with the
use of pesticides. Those 'darling' little wasps may cause other damage?
It seems like many of these 'plans' are not well thought out enough!
http://www.ktvu.com/video/15660814/index.html

All this fuss over Dr. KooKoo's latest paper -- http://nielsmayer.com/kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf
both on list and http://lymebusters.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=1204479684
.... is well deserved. Koo is a major player in our suffering.
Please consider... this is all just "asian face saving" by Dr. Koo, who is the main proponent of DOP as an appropriate diagnosis for many skin conditions, and is considered a pioneer in the quack (IMHO) field of "psychodermatology."
In the paper, he actually acknowledges (dismissively) the existence of opposing ideas and recent news. Big deal. This is so as to insulate himself from the argument that he is arguing entirely from ignorance (which is still the case IMHO)... instead he can say... no, i've read all those papers, i pretend to look for those things, while I continue to ply my trade, which involves getting funding from drug companies to use my university research lab to endorse bogus pharmaceutical products, while I conduct research that is totally fraudulent but conducted under the auspices of a large university so it gets an aura of reliability that shouldn't be given to someone that is basically a drug-pusher of addictive drugs people don't need in any way shape or form for any skin condition.
I did get a free couple years of UV therapy 3 times a week courtesy of Dr. Koo, who was happy to see the insurance company pay out so much money to his lab for providing totally useless therapy... so I was the tanned-est non-gay guy in san-francisco.... but it didn't really help w/ the morgs... nor did taking me off antibiotics that were working (keflex) ... and putting me on the #1 useless antibiotic for anything related to lyme -- erythromycin -- and addicting me to an elephant dose of paxil. All for a diagnosis of "folliculitis." (not DOP!).
Dr. Koo is the doctor that got me to stop trusting doctors. He is a complete idiot combined with a total narcissist -- a very bad combination. When I confronted him with (after a year of failed treatment) on why he wanted to try Orap... I had already read his paper, and did research on Orap and found it was very dangerous and potentially deadly combined w/ some of the meds he'd already been prescribing. But that didn't stop Dr. Koo from prescribing two medicines that were strongly, black-boxedly CONTRAINDICATED. When i confronted him with this... he got mad at me for making him look bad in front of his students. No apology for trying to kill me... just anger at me for making him "lose face" in front of his students.
Consider his "lose face" and "save face" reactions in psychologizing his actions. He is evil and
a "true believer" in his own bullshit. He is quiet and "behind the scenes" but I assure you he is there
in the planning meetings with drug companies, the CDC, the AMA, IDSA, etc... planning our doom.
-- Niels.
PS: for the record, my relationship with Dr. Koo is available for all to see (and i can't edit it anyways, so it's there forever). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:NielsMayer#Unblock_request
PPS: I'll happily allow Dr. Koo to "save face" ... but he needs to go on hunting trips with Dick Cheney
for like a year.... when he's begging for the buckshot to be removed from his face... we'll tell him he's delusional
what buckshot... if you'd only just quit picking... and put him on Orap till he quiets down and the buckshot embeds into his skin forever, hideoously deforming his already cretinous visage:

PPPS: http://www.thenmo.org/quote-em.htm

[INLINE]

Patients suffering from psychocutaneous illnesses are more likely to see dermatologists than any other physicians, yet dermatologists are perhaps the physicians least prepared to address these problems, says John Y. M. Koo, M.D., However, he says the term Morgellons "can be very useful for us because it's more neutral" than telling a patient that he or she is delusional.

......says Dr. Koo, who is board-certified in dermatology and psychiatry.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:24 AM, patram81 <patram81@...

I think, in the world of medicine, there are probably just as
many 'crazy' doctors as there are people in the general population.
The general public seems to have such respect for those who can call
themselves 'doctor'. In actuality, there have been doctors who are
drug and sex addicts, alcoholics, serial and singular murderers.
Some doctors receive payment for endorsing bad products (even heads
of departments in hospitals, who you would think might have higher
ethical standards). Some doctors produce their own brand of
products, capitalizing on their 'good' names.
We, the public, probably only hear a smattering of scandalous
occurrences, but people in the profession, being human, probably
gossip about these things amongst themselves.
But there are also doctors who can digest information, assess the
bias, and formulate valid conclusions. There are doctors who, in
spite of the recent drug company hype which changed the 'guidlines'
for cholesterol management, would not give many of their patients
these drugs. Now, we see that their effectiveness in actually
lessoning heart attacks is only in a small percent of the population,
diabetics being part of that group. But there are side effects to
these drugs that can be harmful. Some smart doctors figured out, way
ahead of time, that exposing otherwise 'normal' patients to those
side effects was probably the worst side of that gamble.
I have heard that a specialist would never have time to see patients
if he tried to keep abreast of all the new information concerning his
specialty. This is why we get second and third opinions, preferably
from doctors with differing hospital and school affiliations.
This is also one of the reasons why getting your findings published
in the 'right' journals is so important. There are many sources for
publishing medical literature, but only a few are considered
the 'creme de la creme', and these have the widest readership.
Also, we hear of bogus studies with 'doctored' results.
I think a physician who cannot take the time to do research himself
must rely on the reputation of a publication to guide him in his
understanding. Just the fact that someone is doing a study might not
be so impressive, unless this person is a 'big name' - and even
publishing in a 'secondary' journal may win little recognition.
This puts so much power in the hands of those who control what gets
into JAMA or Lancet or the New England J of M. A researcher can be
blackballed, perhaps only because years ago he may have considered a
theory that was later proven false.
It is hard for a good doctor to buck the system as well as maintain
credibility among his peers. It takes courage to break new ground.
It must be relatively easy for a scoundral to 'make a name', because
all he has to do is convince an already gullible public.
So, although the system safeguards us against some quacks, it also
can screen out promising innovations.
Drug companies are a big source of revenue for publications and med
schools, and their money also contributes to the functioning of the
FDA, creating what has to be a horrible bias and conflict of
interest.
So, our government allows the drug companies to overcharge us for the
same drugs that are much cheaper in most of the world, and that
excess that we pay are going to rig the system to only offer a drug
solution to all of our problems.
This gaping hole in our medical system also allows lots of charletans
to step in and peddle questionable wares. All of that static just
has to drown out some really effective methods.
Such waste.
We all hear these rumors, but I met a woman who worked for the
American Cancer Institute who was actually told to stop being so
diligent at her job because once a cure is found they are all out of
work.
The system sucks.
We really need an overhauling of our medical system, but not just
some slapped together package of government/corporatistic managed cut-
rate care, similar to what we have now, something selected by some
politician and the drug and insurance industries. We require a good,
long, public discussion of how to cut out waste and conflict of
interest, and how to reward and encourage good research and good
doctors. It is only by building a reliable system that all can have
confidence in that the quacks will be discouraged.
So, I can understand how doctors, both good and bad, can be
overlooking these Morg studies.
But I also think there may be research going on that is not so
public.
The thing about science is that being published in prestigious
journals is next to godly approval. It opens the door to peer
acclaim and more money to support further projects. So, people
working on such projects often keep their findings close to their
chests, not wanting some Johnny-come-lately to grab onto this hard
earned information and publishing under their own name, grabbing all
of the attention and research monies.
Dumb me, forget the specifics, but not too very long ago someone got
a Nobel prize for some work in genetics with a particular organism.
There was an objection raised by another scientist(I think from
Italy), saying his idea was stolen. When they examined the organism
they found that, indeed, it was the genetic organism that the second
person had developed. So the prize was awarded to both. There are
probably, I am thinking, many such instances that cannot be proven so
easily.
These things happen. So research is often jealously guarded until it
is published, giving credit appropriately to the people who did the
work.
I really think there is probably more going on than we know of.

Patram,
You are so articulate and intelligent in the way you present
information......plus, you're just a really cool person as well, and that is why
even when I am too sick to post, I enjoy reading yours.
What I DON'T understand, is why MDs cannibalize their peers even when CREDIBLE
DATA is published in a highly respected journal! Look again, sorry guys, but
the Doctor who discovered H. Pylori bacteria present in 98% of the digestive
tracts of his patients! He treated them with a 30 day regimine of antibiotics
and anti-acids, and every case with the bacteria present resolved. Now
remember, people were BLEEDING TO DEATH and suffering horrible pain because of
ulcers!!! My own ex husband had two blood transfusions when he was here
attending college after leaving Iraq in the late 70s, and even when we first
married in the early 90s, every, single night he would be miserable.....tossing
and turning and telling me how badly his stomach hurt. You would assume, if you
have any compassion at all, that the researcher who discovered the CURE for this
agony would be LAUDED and receive awards, right? Of course not!!! It is the
MEDICAL PROFESSION we're talking about. This Doctor was SHUNNED, RIDICULED and
even threatened with the loss of his medical license!!! It took a DECADE for
his well researched, tested, studied and PROVEN RESULTS to be accepted as the
standard of care!!!
Why would we be any different? In fact, the more TERRIFYING and BIZARRE the
symptoms, the less likely people will be to accept it. Why? Because of the
innate fear we all have of death and dying. If they admit that something like
the Ebola virus exists, that also means THEY could die a horrible death,
bleeding from their eyes, ears, and every other orifice in their body. For the
majority of people, it is simply their own fears which make it easier to say we
are all delusional......and Doctors are human beings as well. Even though I
think Dermatologists go to medical school in HELL, and they are all minor demons
who spread evil rhetoric rather than actual science.
Oh well. Just my long winded opinion.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

I think, in the world of medicine, there are probably just as
many 'crazy' doctors as there are people in the general population.
The general public seems to have such respect for those who can call
themselves 'doctor'. In actuality, there have been doctors who are
drug and sex addicts, alcoholics, serial and singular murderers.
Some doctors receive payment for endorsing bad products (even heads
of departments in hospitals, who you would think might have higher
ethical standards). Some doctors produce their own brand of
products, capitalizing on their 'good' names.
We, the public, probably only hear a smattering of scandalous
occurrences, but people in the profession, being human, probably
gossip about these things amongst themselves.
But there are also doctors who can digest information, assess the
bias, and formulate valid conclusions. There are doctors who, in
spite of the recent drug company hype which changed the 'guidlines'
for cholesterol management, would not give many of their patients
these drugs. Now, we see that their effectiveness in actually
lessoning heart attacks is only in a small percent of the population,
diabetics being part of that group. But there are side effects to
these drugs that can be harmful. Some smart doctors figured out, way
ahead of time, that exposing otherwise 'normal' patients to those
side effects was probably the worst side of that gamble.
I have heard that a specialist would never have time to see patients
if he tried to keep abreast of all the new information concerning his
specialty. This is why we get second and third opinions, preferably
from doctors with differing hospital and school affiliations.
This is also one of the reasons why getting your findings published
in the 'right' journals is so important. There are many sources for
publishing medical literature, but only a few are considered
the 'creme de la creme', and these have the widest readership.
Also, we hear of bogus studies with 'doctored' results.
I think a physician who cannot take the time to do research himself
must rely on the reputation of a publication to guide him in his
understanding. Just the fact that someone is doing a study might not
be so impressive, unless this person is a 'big name' - and even
publishing in a 'secondary' journal may win little recognition.
This puts so much power in the hands of those who control what gets
into JAMA or Lancet or the New England J of M. A researcher can be
blackballed, perhaps only because years ago he may have considered a
theory that was later proven false.
It is hard for a good doctor to buck the system as well as maintain
credibility among his peers. It takes courage to break new ground.
It must be relatively easy for a scoundral to 'make a name', because
all he has to do is convince an already gullible public.
So, although the system safeguards us against some quacks, it also
can screen out promising innovations.
Drug companies are a big source of revenue for publications and med
schools, and their money also contributes to the functioning of the
FDA, creating what has to be a horrible bias and conflict of
interest.
So, our government allows the drug companies to overcharge us for the
same drugs that are much cheaper in most of the world, and that
excess that we pay are going to rig the system to only offer a drug
solution to all of our problems.
This gaping hole in our medical system also allows lots of charletans
to step in and peddle questionable wares. All of that static just
has to drown out some really effective methods.
Such waste.
We all hear these rumors, but I met a woman who worked for the
American Cancer Institute who was actually told to stop being so
diligent at her job because once a cure is found they are all out of
work.
The system sucks.
We really need an overhauling of our medical system, but not just
some slapped together package of government/corporatistic managed cut-
rate care, similar to what we have now, something selected by some
politician and the drug and insurance industries. We require a good,
long, public discussion of how to cut out waste and conflict of
interest, and how to reward and encourage good research and good
doctors. It is only by building a reliable system that all can have
confidence in that the quacks will be discouraged.
So, I can understand how doctors, both good and bad, can be
overlooking these Morg studies.
But I also think there may be research going on that is not so
public.
The thing about science is that being published in prestigious
journals is next to godly approval. It opens the door to peer
acclaim and more money to support further projects. So, people
working on such projects often keep their findings close to their
chests, not wanting some Johnny-come-lately to grab onto this hard
earned information and publishing under their own name, grabbing all
of the attention and research monies.
Dumb me, forget the specifics, but not too very long ago someone got
a Nobel prize for some work in genetics with a particular organism.
There was an objection raised by another scientist(I think from
Italy), saying his idea was stolen. When they examined the organism
they found that, indeed, it was the genetic organism that the second
person had developed. So the prize was awarded to both. There are
probably, I am thinking, many such instances that cannot be proven so
easily.
These things happen. So research is often jealously guarded until it
is published, giving credit appropriately to the people who did the
work.
I really think there is probably more going on than we know of.

What makes me so angry and incredulous is the fact that the majority of these
paper pushing MORONS, if not all of them, have never even spoken to Randy
Wymore, Ginger Savley, or any other Doctor/Researcher who has actually EXAMINED
and TESTED NUMEROUS PATIENTS SUFFERING WITH THIS DISEASE!!!! They listen to
anecdotal evidence instead of empirical data, and many of them deny the evidence
when it is placed directly in front of them!!! I swear to GOD, any FIFTH GRADER
would be more open minded and objective than these REJECTS masquerading as
MDs!!! I hate it that they can make me so angry and upset as to lower the level
of discourse to name calling, but how am I.....and ALL OF YOU, (wow, MASS
DELUSIONS hitting the US!!! Why aren't there any papers being written about all
the professional, educated individuals, with no previous diagnosis of mental
disease, who have suddenly become delusional?!?! Seems like the super
intelligent, know it all paper pushers would want to get published about that,
doesn't it?), supposed to feel when we are the only concerned parties in what
may be a worldwide, emerging PANDEMIC!!
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

I really think there will be a breakthrough regarding this.
It would really be amusing to start a folder of various doctors and
their dumb, smug, comments such as this, and when the diagnosis and
treatment are finally published in a credible journal, send copies to
these individuals, asking them to defend their opinions in the
publication.

Address correspondence and reprint requests to: Robert
Accordino, MSc, Department of Medical Education, Box 1257,
Mount Sinai School of Medicine, One Gustave L. Levy Place,
New York, NY 10029, or email: Robert.accordino@.../

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:31 PM, zip22045 <zip22045@...

Thanks for the post Niels and isn't he really suggesting that
Dermatologists outright lie to their patients??? I think this is
unethical and the press, respective department and their legal
counsel should be alerted to this outlandish suggestion? Also,
interesting that no direct contact email or other addresses are
provided by the authors Zip

I haven't been taking Fenben all that long and not sure that what
I'm doing is right either. When I first started taking it I had a
similar problem. Things seemed to be getting worst. I upped my
dosage to the 2x level, which is said to kill the more difficult
parisites, and things got better. For better or worst... Zip.

This so outrages me .... if any of these doctors were present here
with me right now ..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Are these doctors
getting nervous that their total disregard for our illnesses and
their delusional diagnosis may be proven wrong? This paper never
addresses the children that have Morgellons .... yeah those tiny
bunch of 'coke-heads'!!!! Those kids are all over our street corners
snorting, smoking coke and showing Morgellons sores .... Are these
doctors really serious?
I pretty much have just woken up (a very lazy day for me here) so I
apologize if I don't make too much sense here. I also get so outraged
when reading such crap! I can not wait for a definitive diagnosis to
rub in these know-it-all DERMATOLOGISTS (remember no one on the
Morgellons Research Foundation is a DERMATOLOGIST!!!!!!!!) faces!!!!
How can they be so blatently steadfast in their thinking about us!
How many of us woke up one morning to want to look, feel, and become
ill with such a debilitating disease? Yeah, like I wanted to loose a
boyfriend, socially isolate myself, and get treated by doctors with
no respect and labled delusional? The FIRST TIME that I visited a
doctor concerning this I was told that I was doing this to myself FOR
ATTENTION????? That was 4 long years ago! Four long years that I have
pretty much dedicated my life to getting help for myself and all of
us. I would have loved to have gone camping, swimming, work out at
the YMCA (I had to quit as I wasn't allowed to participate because of
the lesions) gone out on dates ...... gone to parties, wore 'real'
clothes in the Summer time instead of covering every inch of my body
in clothes and basically waited until night fell to be seen in
public.
I'm not in that bad of shape now as the fenben has stopped my lesions
and my scars are now disapearing to the point that I may wear a
sleeveless shirt without looking like a leper ..... or should I say
LEOPARD! But I need to know what is the cause of our illness before I
ever stop taking the fenbendazole!
Those dermatologists will never see me in their offices! Like Zip
said ..... isn't that paper stating shoddy and unethical medical
practices toward us? I agree that it is!!!!!
Wendy

Thanks for the post Niels and isn't he really suggesting that
Dermatologists outright lie to their patients??? I think this is
unethical and the press, respective department and their legal
counsel should be alerted to this outlandish suggestion? Also,
interesting that no direct contact email or other addresses are
provided by the authors Zip

I have been on it for over two weeks and my leisions are worse than ever....Do you think it is because they are dying and leaving my body? Has anyone else experienced getting worse before better with fenben? And if so, how long before you started noticing any improvement with your skin and health?
Niels Mayer <NielsMayer@...

http://nielsmayer.com/kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf
Dermatologic Therapy, Vol. 21, 2008, 812
DERMATOLOGIC THERAPY
ISSN 1396-0296
Morgellons disease?
* Robert E. Accordino**Department of Medical Education, Mount Sinai
School of Medicine, ,
* Danielle Engler/-/-Department of Dermatology, Columbia University,
College of Physicians and Surgeons, ,
* Iona H. Ginsburg/=/=Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University,
College of Physicians and Surgeons and &
* John Koo''Department of Dermatology, University of California, San
Francisco
*Department of Medical Education, Mount Sinai School of Medicine,
/-Department of Dermatology, Columbia University, College of
Physicians and Surgeons, /=Department of Psychiatry, Columbia
University, College of Physicians and Surgeons and 'Department of
Dermatology, University of California, San Francisco
Address correspondence and reprint requests to: Robert Accordino,
MSc, Department of Medical Education, Box 1257, Mount Sinai School of
Medicine, One Gustave L. Levy Place, New York, NY 10029, or email:
Robert.accordino@mssm.edu/
KEYWORDS: delusions of parasitosis, Morgellons disease, therapeutic
alliance
ABSTRACT: Morgellons disease, a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very
similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis, was
first described many centuries ago, but has recently been given much
attention on the internet and in the mass media. The present authors
present a history of Morgellons disease, in addition to which they
discuss the potential benefit of using this diagnostic term as a means
of building trust and rapport with patients to maximize treatment
benefit. The present authors also suggest "meeting the patient halfway"
and creating a therapeutic alliance when providing dermatologic
treatment by taking their cutaneous symptoms seriously enough to
provide both topical ointments as well as antipsychotic medications,
which can be therapeutic in these patients.

http://nielsmayer.com/kookoo-for-psychotropics.pdf
Dermatologic Therapy, Vol. 21, 2008, 812
DERMATOLOGIC THERAPY
ISSN 1396-0296
Morgellons disease?
* Robert E. Accordino**Department of Medical Education, Mount Sinai
School of Medicine, ,
* Danielle Engler/-/-Department of Dermatology, Columbia University,
College of Physicians and Surgeons, ,
* Iona H. Ginsburg/=/=Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University,
College of Physicians and Surgeons and &
* John Koo''Department of Dermatology, University of California, San
Francisco
*Department of Medical Education, Mount Sinai School of Medicine,
/-Department of Dermatology, Columbia University, College of
Physicians and Surgeons, /=Department of Psychiatry, Columbia
University, College of Physicians and Surgeons and 'Department of
Dermatology, University of California, San Francisco
Address correspondence and reprint requests to: Robert Accordino,
MSc, Department of Medical Education, Box 1257, Mount Sinai School of
Medicine, One Gustave L. Levy Place, New York, NY 10029, or email:
Robert.accordino@.../
KEYWORDS: delusions of parasitosis, Morgellons disease, therapeutic
alliance
ABSTRACT: Morgellons disease, a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very
similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis, was
first described many centuries ago, but has recently been given much
attention on the internet and in the mass media. The present authors
present a history of Morgellons disease, in addition to which they
discuss the potential benefit of using this diagnostic term as a means
of building trust and rapport with patients to maximize treatment
benefit. The present authors also suggest "meeting the patient halfway"
and creating a therapeutic alliance when providing dermatologic
treatment by taking their cutaneous symptoms seriously enough to
provide both topical ointments as well as antipsychotic medications,
which can be therapeutic in these patients.

Georga Public health Morgellons powerpoint presentation » SlideShare - 2 visits - 10:13pm

Morgellons powerpoint presentation given the Georgia Public Health Association ... reports came from north Georgia and indicate contact with upturned soils. ...
www.slideshare.net/guest4adeaa/georga-public-health-morgellons-powerpoint-presentation/ - 74k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

[PPT]

UNIDENTIFIED DERMATOSIS SYNDROME (UDS) (aka, Morgellons Disease ... - 3 visits - 10:13pm

File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint - View as HTML
Most of the case reports came from north Georgia and indicate contact with upturned soils. There are associations supporting the hypothesis, ...
www.tesumassd.org/courses/mtx105calvert/readings/morgellons.ppt - Similar pages - Note this

I USED TO HAVE ABCESSES BEFORE taking the fenbendazole .... these
occured constantly! Painful believe me. I still have the lymph glands
in my neck in a state of "soreness" and have had ear infections since
December that do NOT seem to be easily 'healed' without about 2
months of antibiotics. I probably should remain on Pseudophed as it
seems the fluid within the inner ear does not drain properly.
As far as our new member posting here, welcome. However, we have all
heard and discussed Dr. Staninger's 'THEORY. Perhaps she is on
to 'something' and I'm not saying that she's wrong, HOWEVER, there
has been a few of us that have reponded to a wormer/antifungal with
REMARKABLE RESULTS! I have been taking this drug for over a year and
my itching is gone, the lesions are few and far between (basically
abscent) but I do do still exhibit some of the other symptoms. I will
remain on this until there is a definative diagnosis and hopefully
treatment.
So as far as the nano-robots .... I really doubt that a
worm/antifungal medication would be so effective if these were nano-
robots. Just my opinion here. I believe that this is 'something' more
of a natural nature .....
Wendy

How many people grew up next to Farms, crops, etc? I certainly did, and remember planes flying over spraying pesticides on the fields as a child. I have also had Hodgkins Lymphoma which is thought to be somehow connected to Pesticides. I still have tender lymph nodes that pop up in my neck, groin, etc. The lymphatic system is responsible for fighting disease, etc. in ones body. Does anyone else have lymphatic problems? Or what the medical community calls unusual absesses? I pray daily for validation and a cure to be found. I just want to be healed. I get so upset when the topics on here turn to retarded comments about nonsense such as UFO's. It sounds so ignorant, and is the exact reason we are not taken seriously, and are sitting here desparate for help. I find zero humor in it.
klundersun <klundersun@...

Personally, I believe we've been visited by GMOs vs UFOs. Genetically
modified organisms, man made to be indestructible while cleaning raw
sewage plants or oil spills. Maybe to eat other organisms in crops.
k

Ahh.. O..kay.

Sorry, with all due respect i just can't seem to find any logic in your..
coletti <n_coletti@...

Do you beleive we have been visited by UFOs and there inhabitants? I
do. Think they may have brought some critters with them by accident? I
do. My thoughts only. Anyone else?

Personally, I believe we've been visited by GMOs vs UFOs. Genetically
modified organisms, man made to be indestructible while cleaning raw
sewage plants or oil spills. Maybe to eat other organisms in crops.
k

Do you beleive we have been visited by UFOs and there inhabitants? I
do. Think they may have brought some critters with them by accident? I
do. My thoughts only. Anyone else?

Whoa! What is that all about I wonder????? Why are these schools
interested in Morgellons? Yeah, I saw MorgellonsWatch was initially
involved. That too is strange. Wasn't Mick either a Navy man or
perhaps Air Force? I remember him in some white military uniform on
his 'special' wedding day. Niels, what's your idea on this?
Wendy

I noticed in my weblogs an interesting entry, having never heard of dodea.edu and wondering what po-dunk never heard-of university happened to be interested in morgellons...
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:07:43 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 200 1161122 "http://morgellonswatch.com/page/3/" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:06 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 4141 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:06 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 151 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:05 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 105193 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:07 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 30614 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:09 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 805829 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:35 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 121250 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
211.120.229.130.pac.dodea.edu - - [09/Mar/2008:17:08:39 -0700] "GET /morgellons07.pdf HTTP/1.1" 206 3649 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1)"
Domain Name: DODEA.EDU
Registrant:
Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA)
4040 N. Fairfax Drive
IT Division, 7th floor
Arlington, VA 22203
UNITED STATES
Administrative Contact:
Mariellen Klick
Chief IRM
Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA)
4040 N. Fairfax Drive
IT Division, 7th floor
Arlington, VA 22203
UNITED STATES
(703) 588-3415
mariellen.klick@...
Technical Contact:
Rowena Johnson
Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA)
4040 N. Fairfax Drive
IT Division, 7th floor
Arlington, VA 22203
UNITED STATES
(703) 588-3413
rowena.johnson@...
The bad part is that they got at http://nielsmayer.com/morgellons07.pdf through http://morgellonswatch.com , where Mick West spews a lot of negative crap about the authors of the paper, and picks apart the paper in a petty, ridiculous way.
-- Niels.

I never get any weird emails, and I'm also never sarcastic, oh no, not me....:-)
By the way, what smell is associated with serratia marascens. is your tile grout pink? then it's serratia ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serratia_marcescens
Quote:

In the 1950s S. marcescens was erroneously believed to be non-pathogenic and its reddish coloration was used in school experiments to track infections. It has also been used as a simulant in biological warfare tests by the United States Military.[4][5] On September 26 and 27, 1950, the United States Navy conducted a secret experiment named "Operation Sea-Spray" in which some S. marcescens was released by bursting balloons of it over urban areas of the San Francisco Bay Area in California. Although the Navy later claimed the bacteria were harmless, beginning on September 29 eleven patients at a local hospital developed very rare, serious urinary tract infections and one of these individuals, Edward J. Nevin, died. Cases of pneumonia in San Francisco also increased after S. marcescens was released.[6],[7]
Since 1950, S. marcescens has steadily increased as a cause of human infection, with many strains resistant to multiple antibiotics.[1] The first indications of problems with the influenza vaccine produced by Chiron Corporation in 2004 involved S. marcescens contamination.

serratia is very scary sounding... it appears to produce matrix metalloproteins which are linked to "brainfog" and brain dysfuntion for lyme patients (lyme also produces MMP's which apparently help transport neurotixic heavy metals into the brain. Tryptophan degradation is caused by it as well -- tryptophan is an important brain chemical ... i think not having enough causes severe deprerssion.
Quote:

Performing casein hydrolysis allows for S. marcescens to produce extracellular metalloproteases which are believed to function in cell-to-extracellular matrix interactions. S. marcescens also exhibits tryptophan- and citrate-degradation. One of the end products of tryptophan degradation is pyruvic acid, which is then incorporated into different metabolic processes of S. marcescens. A final product of citrate degradation is carbon. Thus, S. marcescens can rely on citrate as a carbon source. In identifying the organism one may also perform a methyl red test, which determines if a microorganism performs mixed-acid fermentation. S. marcescens results in a negative test. Another determination of S. marcescens is its capability to produce lactic acid via oxidative and fermentative metabolism. Therefore, it is said that S. marcescens is lactose O/F+.[2]

So here we have a bacterium that was disseminated into the human population in one of the morgellons hotspots -- the SF Bay area.
A bacterium that can clearly be linked to brain dysfunction via
MMP's and tryptophan degradation. And it's highly resistant to
antibiotics... just like the morgs.
Oh the "carbon" part -- wonder if that's the "black specs"
and the fact that it produces lactic acid -- which is what causes muscles to feel painful after strenuous exercise... might explain the severe fibromylagia seen by some morgs patients (including me).
Have you seen "pink" or "reddish" tile grout? That's serratia. I'm wondering if i got this from my shower in back when i lived in SF. I remember seeing that pink grout. Wish i'd done something about it.
I figured it was a mineral stain from the water or rust or something...
bleh.
Serratia could also potentially be transferred in badly pasturized milk. It appears to be associated with "bovine mastitis" ... what's especially interesting is the desription of these lesions
Quote:

Zentralbl Veterinarmed B, 1997 Nov, 44(9), 537 - 46
Pathology of Serratia marcescens mastitis in cattle; Di Guardo G et al.; Microbiological, cytological, histopathological, and immunohistochemical investigations were carried out on four dairy cows affected by Serratia marcescens mastitis . The animals under study were from a herd of 120 lactating cows bred in the province of Rome . In the above herd, S . marcescens mastitis showed a prevalence of 20.8% . S . marcescens was the only bacterial agent isolated, prior to and after slaughter, from the teat milk, the mammary gland and the supramammary lymph nodes of the four cows under study . Cytologically, the four subjects exhibited high cell counts in their milk, with an average of up to 5,570,000 cells/ml in S.marcescens-infected quarters . Macroscopically, nodular lesions were apparent scattered throughout the mammary parenchyma, with enlargement of the regional lymph nodes . Histologically, a chronic, non-purulent mastitis, characterized by a marked fibrous tissue
proliferation and the coexistence of corpora amylacea within the glandular alveoli, was observed in association with chronic hyperplastic lymphadenitis involving the supramammary lymph nodes of the four cows . Immunohistochemically, S . marcescens was demonstrated, by means of monoclonal antibodies, both in the mammary gland and in the supramammary lymph nodes from these four animals.

What are "corpora amylacea"??
Quote:

corpora amylacea[5] (amyloid), dense accumulations of calcified proteinaceous material, in the ducts of their prostates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyloid
Quote:

Diseases featuring amyloids
* Medulary Carcinoma of the Thyroid
* Amyloidosis
* Alzheimer's disease
* Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy
* Type 2 diabetes mellitus
* Yeast Prions [Sup35],[3] Rnq1
* Sporadic Inclusion Body Myositis (S-IBM)
Non-disease amyloids
(mostly using the biophysical definition)
* Native amyloids in organisms
o Curli E. coli Protein (curlin)
o Podospora Anserina Prion Het-s
o Malarial coat protein
o Spider silk (some but not all spiders)
o Mammalian melanosomes (pMel)
o Tissue-type plasminogen activator (tPA), a hemodynamic factor
* Proteins and peptides known to make amyloid without any known disease
o Calcitonin
* Proteins and peptides engineered to make amyloid

I wont fake I that I can keep up with you, but I sure am gonna follow!
Lol! But bleive me, I can read and understand. I applaud your efforts
to help us understand more than most people know. What doctors are
taking the time to understand this? Not many. You have written things
that I have realized with my nose, my heart and mind. I have a few pink
shower walls. Love pink. The proteins mixed with bleach is an unearthly
smell. Yuck. mixed with amonia, yuck. Have you been to Mor. research
foundation site? I hope so. Look Niels, you are so smart and so needed.
Please keep us informed, well me anyway, I am a scientist at heart
along with being a spiritualist. Hope the too meet and marry someday,
peace to you and your family!

I've been considering some of "TamTam's" ( http://silentsuperbug.com /
http://silentsuperbug-reference.blogspot.com ) suggestions regarding
Dettol as a morgellons topical, in combination w/ other topical and systemic
antifungals. I think he's got a least part of the picture: his last year suggestion
of topical antifungal econozole nitrate was helpful and his current suggestion
of Dettol appears to be correct as well, Dettol is a british/colonial
antibacterial/antifungal based on chlorxylenol aka parachlormetaxylenol
aka PCMX. PCMX is commonly used as active antibacterial in hospital scrubs,
antidandruff-shampoos, animal topicals, acne medication, etc.
This is currently being discussed here: http://lymebusters.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=1201719110
I've found one particularly cheap and soothing topical that seems effective:
AgriLabs Chap-Guard Plus
Beware that some people are allergic to PCMX, or that sensitization is possible
so I don't know how long you can use this. There is literature available about
this as hospital workers get this on their hands multiple times a day in the
course of normal operations. Toxicology states no definite hazards (for something
that's been in use since 1913), but lists POSSIBLE "Gastrointestinal or Liver
Toxicant, Immunotoxicant, Skin or Sense Organ Toxicant..."
If it somehow pains you to use a product for animals that costs $4.00 a pound, then there's always
geriatric ass-cream that costs $5.70 for 120 grams (a pound of "Geri Protect" would cost $21.48).
Feb 12, 2008, 1:36am, Niels wrote:
there's also animal topicals containing chlorxylenol. especially for cow-teat infection prevention.
i'm wondering if it would make good topical.
Chap-Guard Plus
AgriLabs
Contains aloe vera, chloroxylenol (germicide), vitamin E, & humectants to draw moisture into chapped areas. Discourages dirt and manure from sticking to udders. Apply as needed after milking.
13-96....1 lb................................. $4.69
Quantity:
13-97....5 lbs................................. $15.69
This seems to work well as a topical.
[image]
Note that the label says "parachlorometaxylenol" and not "chloroxylenol"
http://agrilabs.naccvp.com/view_label.php?print=1&prodnum=1058029
Quote:
CHAP-GUARD PLUS®
AgriLabs
UDDER CREAM with Aloe Vera
CONTAINS HUMECTANTS AND VITAMINS
CONTAINS: Stearic Acid, Homosalate, Isopropyl Myristate, Cetyl Alcohol, Aloe Vera, Propylene Glycol, Silicone, Lanolin, Mineral Oil, Triethanolamine, Propyl Paraben, Methyl Paraben, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Palmitate, Vitamin D, Parachlorometaxylenol, Deionized Water.
CHAP-GUARD PLUS with vitamins is for use as an aid in treating dry, cracked and chapped udders in cattle. Contains humectants which assist in maintaining the moisture balance of skin.
Milking machines, inclement weather and other factors can strip natural moisture from the udders, leaving them dry and chapped.
The non-sticky, disappearing cream base also discourages dirt and manure from adhering to udders.
DIRECTIONS: Apply daily or as needed after milking to help reduce dryness and aid in soothing and softening of the skin. Thoroughly wash treated areas, using individual towels, before each milking to avoid contamination of milk. After each milking, bathe with plenty of warm water, strip milk out, dry skin and apply product.
USE PRECAUTION: CHAP-GUARD PLUS is not a substitute for balanced nutrition. Consult your veterinarian for assistance in the diagnosis and treatment of nutritional deficiency.
CAUTION: If an animal shows signs of uncontrolled generalized infections, consult your veterinarian. Wash the teats and udders thoroughly before milking.
FOR USE IN ANIMALS ONLY
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=88-04-0
Health Hazard Reference(s)
Recognized: --
Suspected: Gastrointestinal or Liver Toxicant RTECS
Immunotoxicant HAZMAP NAP
Skin or Sense Organ Toxicant HAZMAP KLAA
This substance, PCMX, seems to be widely used in surgical scrubs and for hospital disinfectants. It is also one of the active ingredients in Denorex medicated anti-dandruff shampoo
PCMX is also available in human topicals
[image]
http://www.geritrex.com/smaint/images/line/Geritrex%20Corp%20-%20Geri%20Protect.pdf
Geri Protect
Comparable to Balmex cream® (Pfizer)
An effective barrier ointment for use wherever a moisture repellent is necessary. Contains Aloe Vera, Vitamins A, D and E for care of damaged skin as well as Zinc Oxide for added protection. Geri Protect has a healing agent ideal for perineal applications, skin irritations and minor wounds or burns. Contains PCMX, an anti-fungal and anti-bacterial agent to fight off infectious germs. Exceptionally effective for people with incontinence.

Good information Niels, thankyou! Hello and nice to meet you also. You
have alot of knowledge and share some very good stuff with all. Do you
anyone else go to other site? Morg- research-foundat. support site? Its
good!
I just found out about MORGELLONS, the sites, the studies and all, but
have been ill for 10 years. And I didnt even have a clue. Probably
cause I didnt have a computer. I only read books on human anatomy and
diseases at the library.
My point also is that I thought I had been the only one using home
remedies!! I thought I was a genius!! LOL! Now I see that others have
been scrambling for years too!! Well thats good huh?
Hope you are fine and everyone else, Love Nat

Yup.
The other had, I think, 6 very much loved doggies.
I always remember her as 'redibooks'.
I think at one time someone suggested, somewhere,
that we all get rid of our pets, which to many who
love them, is like telling us to give up kids.
But, I suppose I have some weird ideas to some, too.

Thanks.

http://www.cherokeechas.com/Austin308.htm
Scientific/Medical Conference on Morgellons
"Searching for the UnCommon Thread"
DATE:
March 29, 2008
TIME:
8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
LOCATION:
Westoak Woods Baptist Church
Conference Room
2900 Slaughter Lane
Austin, Texas
SPONSOR: This event is being sponsored by the The New Morgellons
Order, a non-profit organization with IRS 501 (c) (3) status. In
honor of it's founder, The NMO is also known as The Charles E. Holman
Foundation. Our all volunteer staff is dedicated to fundraising for
scientific research and medical education, raising public awareness,
and providing support for those who suffer with this unexplained illness.
WHO MAY ATTEND: Although much of the lecture content will be geared
toward medical professionals and scientists, we encourage patients and
supporters to attend as well. Our goal is an informative, educational
and inspiring event that will be beneficial to all!
GUEST SPEAKERS:
Randy S. Wymore, Ph.D.
Tulsa, OK
Research Director, Center for Investigation of Morgellons
Oklahoma State University-Center for Health Sciences
Topic: "Research Update"
Raphael B. Stricker, MD
San Francisco, Ca
Sub-specialty training in internal medicine, hematology, and immunology
Board of Directors ILADS, International Lyme and Associated Diseases
Society
Board of Directors CLDA, California Lyme Disease Association
Topic: "Controversies in Newly Emerging Disease"
Elizabeth Rasmussen, Ph.D.
Laramie, WY
Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, Author of "Debunking DOP"
Sub-specialty training in microbiology and immunology
Topic: "Dermatology...How it is Taught and How it is Practiced"
Harriet Bishop, President, TXLDA
Austin, TX
Morgellons Patient
President of Texas Lyme Disease Association
Topic: "Staying Positive to Cope with Morgellons"
Ginger Savely, FNP-C
San Francisco, CA
Pursuing her Doctorate in Nursing Practice with a thesis thesis on
Morgellons, Ms Savely practices in SF, Ca
Having seen over 200 Morgellons patients, her experience has become
world renown.
Topic: "Clinical Aspects of Morgellons"
Mark Darrah, BS
Stony Brook University
Morgellons Research Director
Mark Darrah's research includes SEM, FTIR and Raman
Microspectroscopy. Presentation will also include findings by Dr.
Vitaly Citovsky on identification of Agrobacterium as related to
Morgellons Disease.
Topic: "Morgellons Research Presentation of Scanning Electron
Microscopy and Fiber/Substance Analysis "
David Gibbs, MS, CDRP
Austin, TX
Social Security Specialist, Disability Claims Professionals of Texas
Experienced and successful disability representation for Morgellons
and Lyme Disease
Topic: "Social Security Benefits as Related to Morgellons Disease"
Gregory V. Smith, MD, FAAP
Gainseville, GA
Board Certified Pediatrician practiced in Gainseville, Ga for 28 yrs
Member, AAP, American Academy of Pediatrics, Ga Chapter
Former Board of Director, AAP, Ga Chapter
Morgellons Patient
Topic: "Morgellons... Not Just a Skin Disease"
HOW TO REGISTER: A completed registration form (click here to print
form) is required in order to assure adequate seating and accommodations.
FEE: A tax deductible contribution of $25.00 per registrant is
requested to help cover costs but is not required. We want everyone
to have the opportunity to attend. Any proceeds from this event will
be used to further education and research.
Checks or money orders can be made payable to:
"The New Morgellons Order" or
"The Charles E. Holman Foundation"
Mail registration form along with your tax deductible contribution (if
applicable) to:
The New Morgellons Order/
The Charles E. Holman Foundation
P.O. Box 1109
Lone Star, Texas 75668

There must be 2 karens then

I never had any problems at all. How much are you taking? What other
types of medications are you taking? You should get a check-up done
first to see how healthy you are ...I don't know if anyone else has
felt that way .... hopefully others will also give us some feedback!
Wendy

Just started fenben. Having shortness of breath, elevated heartrate and low grade fever.....Has anyone else experienced this when first using fenben?

I dont know the names off hand. But Im sure we could find them easily.
Ever since I THOUGHT I had a parasite Ive been researching my butt off.
My mind couldnt possibly retain and remember all the info Ive read and
cried about. I could have went to med school. Thats ok though, it is
what it is.
lab techs, docs and parasitologist dont know what we have. Im positive.
Other countries are researching more than here in U.S. So many theories
huh? I still think its something they have never seen. So what if it
is, they need to help us. They arent though.
Love and peace, N

Have you taken your pet for a visit to the Veterinarian? Just because a
pet straches we can't immediately say they have Morgellons!!!!! They
can have allergies, suffer from hormonal imbalances which cause them to
lick their tummies BALD, they can have one flea hop on, have a meal and
jump off and if your pet suffers from a flea allergy, be itching for
weeks!!!! And yes, there are mange mites as well. I would have the
veterinarian take a look first before medicating them for things they
may not have!
Remember that they also go through shed cycles and loose alot of hair
too! If you love them, please have then checked out with a
veterinarian. I've suggested this time and time again ..... I was a
Veterinary technician for many years.
Wendy

When working at the veterinary clinic .... we never treated any dog
with either Demodectic or Sacrcoptic Mange Mites with anything
internal. The pictures on that site show an extreamely NEGLECTED
state of Sarcoptic Mange Mites. At that point of infection (results
from the owner's neglect of bringing the animal in to the clinic for
veterinary care) I guess drastic mesures using internal medications
are warrented as there may be little hope of stopping the damage and
run down condition of the animal resulting from the infestation also
contributes to the overall condition. It's sort of a do-or-die
situation at that point
We would always administer WEEKLY dips of some pretty toxic
pesticides after bathing the animals. There were also other
medications such as a very old 'Standby', Goodwinol
Ointment: "GOODWINOL OINTMENT
A nationally-recognized ointment for the treatment of demodectic and
follicular mange of dogs. Contains Benzocaine, Orthophenyl-phenol,
Rotenone and Lanolin". It was very thick, tan in color and smelled
just like 'BACON'.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&articleid=1478
Summary
Goodwinol ointment is used to treat localized demodectic mange in
dogs. Do NOT use Goodwinol ointment on cats. Rotenone shampoo can be
used to control mites on dogs and cats, but alternative methods of
treatment are often used. Contact your veterinarian if your pet
experiences drooling, vomiting, diarrhea, changes in breathing rate,
muscle twitching, seizures, or coma while being treated with a
rotenone-containing compound.
NOTICE also that many medications used in dogs are NOT to be used in
cats.
We all 'normally' have these mites on us (eyelashes, eyebrows) and on
our pets .... but they do not cause any illness until there is a
compromised immune system which may cause them to develop into a
medical infestation and symptoms to the skin. I don't know really how
common that they occur in humans but usually if your pet has this the
owners do not have to worry about contracting the condition.
Both mites are microscopic and you cannot see them with the naked eye.
When doing skin scrapings the skin is scraped in areas of unbroken
skin close to the areas of crusted broken inflamed skin. The scraping
is mixed with mineral oil and placed on a slide with a coverslip and
either alive or dead mites can be observed. Sometimes no mites are
viewed but the animal is treated regardless because of the symptoms,
inflamation, hair loss, crusty lesions (mostly caused by itching of
the animal) sometimes a 'mousey' smell also accompanies Demodectic
Mange but some say it comes with both types. It has been explained as
a result of excess fatty acids being excreted.
Sarcoptic Mange Mites are much more common in humans as we all know!
Wendy

My poor cat has developed morgellons. He is going absolutaly crazy.
I pluck hairs off of him and they are so active. He's attacking his
own body and batting at things that are not there. I called a couple
of vets but have never heard of fenbendazole. (canada)
Has anyone tried silver for their cats and if so, how much do you give
them? Any suggestions of what helps? Have any of your pets died from
this? I am thinking if it causes my cat too much distress I may have
to put down.
shirley